Legislature(1999 - 2000)

04/26/1999 06:25 PM House FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
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HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 25                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State                                                                         
of Alaska relating to a petition for an initiative or                                                                           
referendum regarding fish or wildlife.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
LORALI MEIER, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN, explained                                                                       
that HJR 25 would bar fish and wildlife from the initiative                                                                     
process.  The State Constitution clearly indicates that the                                                                     
Legislature is the authoritative body to manage fish and                                                                        
game.  The Legislature can, however, delegate that authority                                                                    
to a board.  The Boards of Game and Fisheries were created                                                                      
as an extension of that management body.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Meier stressed that there is no constitutional                                                                              
restriction on the ability of the Alaska Legislature to                                                                         
propose an amendment to the Alaska Constitution that would                                                                      
alter, restrict, or even prohibit the use of the initiative                                                                     
process by the people to enact laws relating to fish and                                                                        
game concerns.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Meier concluded that too often, the initiative process                                                                      
is used to advance an emotional agenda which does not                                                                           
contain rational or scientific principles.  She believed                                                                        
that resource management must be backed up by sound,                                                                            
logical, and scientific findings.  The sponsor of HJR 25 has                                                                    
stated that it would strengthen the Legislature's                                                                               
constitutional authority to manage fish and wildlife.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
HJR 25 was HELD in Committee for further consideration.                                                                         
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON HJR 3, HJR 7, & HJR 25                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 3                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State                                                                         
of Alaska relating to initiatives regarding natural                                                                             
resources belonging to the state.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 7                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State                                                                         
of Alaska relating to initiative and referendum                                                                                 
petitions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 25                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State                                                                         
of Alaska relating to a petition for an initiative or                                                                           
referendum regarding fish or wildlife.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
STEVE WHITE, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, NATURAL RESOURCE                                                                       
SECTION, DEPARTMENT OF LAW, directed his comments to                                                                            
concerns with the wildlife initiatives.   He stated that the                                                                    
Legislature needs to clarify why they would be placing fish                                                                     
and wildlife initiatives separate from all other                                                                                
initiatives.  He stated that passage of the legislation                                                                         
would establish a higher bar for those concerns.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Austerman asked for clarification regarding                                                                      
comments made by Mr. White.  Mr. White replied that whenever                                                                    
the Court's witness that the Legislature has taken different                                                                    
action with different groups, they need to separate the                                                                         
different categories and look for reasons.  The reason for                                                                      
establishing a higher bar should be discussed and placed on                                                                     
the record for future litigation purposes.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault commented that the prime sponsor's see                                                                      
the need to use wildlife resources, and for that use to be                                                                      
managed on science and logical grounds.  Mr. White noted                                                                        
that the sponsor's comments would to accompany the                                                                              
legislation as it moves forward.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies questioned why the proposed                                                                            
concerns should be set apart from air and water quality                                                                         
issues.  Representative Bunde pointed out that HJR 3 speaks                                                                     
to all natural resources, not just fish and game.  He                                                                           
reiterated that it would be best that the State's resources                                                                     
be managed wisely and not be subject to the media                                                                               
indoctrination.  Mr. White stated that the Department of Law                                                                    
looks to the Legislature to provide the tools needed to                                                                         
clarify why these initiatives need a higher bar so that the                                                                     
Department of Law can withstand a legal challenge when                                                                          
protecting the legislation.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault questioned the possible legal challenges                                                                    
when State residents vote to change the Alaska Constitution.                                                                    
Mr. White replied that when the Legislature takes action                                                                        
differentiating two types of topics, the Courts will always                                                                     
look for a reasonable base to guarantee that there are not                                                                      
alternative motives.  Co-Chair Therriault asked if the                                                                          
Department of Law anticipated a challenge that the                                                                              
legislation might violate the U.S. Constitution.  Mr. White                                                                     
did not anticipate that problem.  He noted that this                                                                            
information is an underlining requirement for all types of                                                                      
legislation and that the Department is only trying to                                                                           
strengthen the initiative process.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies questioned how broad would the                                                                         
resolution be.  He asked if the definition of "natural                                                                          
resources" would be extended.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Williams asked if the Department placed HJR 7                                                                    
in the same category as the other two initiatives.  Mr.                                                                         
White apologized, pointing out that HJR 7 is a separate                                                                         
issue since it does not distinguish certain types of                                                                            
initiatives, instead applies to all.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative Bunde clarified that Alaska is not a                                                                             
manufacturing State.  Alaska is highly dependent upon                                                                           
resources to support its citizens.  He stated that HJR 3                                                                        
would allow 2/3 of Alaskans to make decisions regarding                                                                         
resources and their use.  Representative J. Davies cited                                                                        
that the Legislature should "really" allow the majority of                                                                      
Alaskans to make those decisions.  He recommended that if                                                                       
there is a problem with outside interests coming into                                                                           
Alaska, there should be legislation addressing that concern                                                                     
indicating the amount of money that can be spent in State on                                                                    
advertising.  Representative Bunde argued that the U.S.                                                                         
Supreme Court has taken a strong stance on political speech                                                                     
rights.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
DICK BISHOP, VICE PRESIDENT, ALASKA OUTDOOR COUNCIL (AOC),                                                                      
FAIRBANKS, noted that AOC voted to support HJR 25.  He                                                                          
stated that they have observed the growing trend to use the                                                                     
initiative process to influence fish and wildlife                                                                               
management.  In most cases, these initiatives have advocated                                                                    
simple actions that affect complex issues.  The approach is                                                                     
usually highly emotional and shows little regard for sound                                                                      
conservation, scientific management or values of others.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bishop continued, the initiative process bypasses the                                                                       
entire process.  It short circuits thoughtful public                                                                            
involvement.  The Alaska Outdoor Council urges passage of                                                                       
HJR 25.  AOC does not believe that the proposed legislation                                                                     
constraints the initiative process offered by the                                                                               
alternative resolutions.  They each have merit, however,                                                                        
they would not be up to the task of ensuring an effective                                                                       
means of conserving Alaska's fish and wildlife, and                                                                             
protecting fishing, hunting and trapping values.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
GERON BRUCE, LEGISLATIVE LIAISON, OFFICE OF THE                                                                                 
COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME, stated that the                                                                      
Department has reservations about changing the initiative                                                                       
process to prevent fish and game management issues as                                                                           
recommended in HJR 25.  Additionally, the Department does                                                                       
not believe that requiring a super majority of 2/3 votes                                                                        
cast to adopt an initiative as put forward in HJR 3.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bruce commented that the Department is proud of the way                                                                     
our system allows the public to be a party to fish and game                                                                     
management decisions.  Through the fish and game advisory                                                                       
committees and the board process, individual Alaskans can                                                                       
have a direct influence on how their fish and game resources                                                                    
are managed, used and conserved.  It is the preference of                                                                       
the Department that the board process be used for making                                                                        
fish and game management decisions because it allows both                                                                       
the Department's scientific information and the public's                                                                        
values and objectives for fish and game management to be                                                                        
considered before any decision is made.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bruce noted that many people consider the initiative                                                                        
process to be an essential part of checks and balances that                                                                     
make the democratic system work.  The opportunity for the                                                                       
public to make laws directly gives people a way to prevent                                                                      
special interests from dominating government and in the long                                                                    
run helps maintain public confidence in institutions like                                                                       
the boards of fish and game.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bruce concluded, the view of the Department is that                                                                         
there is no danger to sound fish and game management from                                                                       
the initiative process sufficient to require preventing its                                                                     
application to fish and game management issues.                                                                                 
Additionally, the Department does not think that the                                                                            
requirement for a super majority is warranted.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Mulder asked how many initiatives have been                                                                            
introduced that affected fish and wildlife management.  Mr.                                                                     
Bruce commented that information was available and that he                                                                      
would provide it to Committee members.  Recently, there have                                                                    
been two that have been the subject of much controversy.                                                                        
Co-Chair Mulder asked if the Department had supported any of                                                                    
the initiatives.  Mr. Bruce replied that the Department had                                                                     
not taken a position.  In one of the initiatives, the Court                                                                     
ruled it was not suitable because it dealt with the                                                                             
allocation of issues, while the other two addressed methods                                                                     
and means.  Representative Grussendorf discussed that                                                                           
limited entry had been one of the issues.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Bunde spoke to the result of leaving the                                                                         
initiative process as it currently is.  He asked Mr. Bruce                                                                      
if he was suggesting that "special interests" had                                                                               
manipulative power in the Legislature.   Mr. Bruce commented                                                                    
that he was speaking to the board process.  People who are                                                                      
interested can become involved through regulatory actions.                                                                      
This does not suggest that the larger public does not have                                                                      
ideas regarding how these issues should be handled.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative Williams inquired how the initiative process                                                                     
could build confidence in the State.  Mr. Bruce explained                                                                       
that it assures people that they can directly take action to                                                                    
make the laws that affect them.  It provides checks and                                                                         
balances throughout the system.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
(Tape Change HFC 99 - 105, Side 2).                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies asked why the State needs to set                                                                       
wildlife decisions apart from other decisions.  He pointed                                                                      
out that the sponsor believes that "science" should take the                                                                    
lead over "emotion".  He advised that some people's emotions                                                                    
might be another person's values.  Currently, there are both                                                                    
scientific and value decisions being decided in the                                                                             
management of fish and game.  The issue of "value" is often                                                                     
driven and it is assumed that a decision can not be made                                                                        
based on science.  It has been suggested that it is                                                                             
important to retain the initiative process, so that those                                                                       
issues of value can be decided through a larger context.                                                                        
Mr. Bruce pointed out that the number of initiatives,                                                                           
illustrates that by and large, the current process works.                                                                       
The Departments prefers that the current process remain.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Williams advised that all three bills give                                                                       
more validation toward scientific process.  Mr. Bruce                                                                           
reiterated that the board process is the preferred one of                                                                       
the Department.  Representative Williams questioned if the                                                                      
three initiatives would close that process.  Mr. Bruce                                                                          
replied that HJR 25 would close the process entirely to fish                                                                    
and game issues while HJR 3 would raise the bar.  HJR 7                                                                         
identifies how to place an issue on the ballot.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Public comment on the legislation was concluded.                                                                                
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 25                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State                                                                         
of Alaska relating to a petition for an initiative or                                                                           
referendum regarding fish or wildlife.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative Foster MOVED to report CS HJR 25 (JUD) out of                                                                    
Committee with individual recommendations and with the                                                                          
accompanying fiscal note.  Representative J. Davies                                                                             
OBJECTED.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies stressed that HJR 25 would remove                                                                      
an appropriate option from the people while not adequately                                                                      
defining that category.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Bunde voiced concern with public perception                                                                      
and the impact of the bill.  He commented that he was not                                                                       
enthusiast about the bill.  Representative Austerman echoed                                                                     
remarks voiced by Representative Bunde.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Bunde, G. Davis, Foster, Grussendorf,                                                                                 
Kohring, Williams, Austerman, Therriault,                                                                                       
Mulder                                                                                                                          
OPPOSED:  J. Davies                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative Moses was not present for the vote.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION PASSED (9-1).                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CS HJR 25 (JUD) was reported out of Committee with "no                                                                          
recommendation" and with a fiscal note by the Office of the                                                                     
Lt. Governor dated 3/16/99.                                                                                                     

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